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Myself
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Jaime Soulodre
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A (really) short view into creating images with 3d software

This is a public forum. Only Genius Crowds members can create and reply to discussion threads; however the content in all threads can be viewed by anyone. Please refrain from posting product idea related submissions within the forums.

Myself #0 2011-02-13 (Last Edited 2011-02-14)
Myself
OK... I wanted to start some sort of explanation for all of you since I received many questions how to create cool 3d renderings.
Maybe this basic explanation helps you to see if you might be able to do this on your own.

Let's start and dive right into it (but not too deep ;) ).

First of all, you should know that 3d software works completely different form most of the drawing software you may already know (e.g. Paint.net, Microsoft Paint) and it even works completely different as some other presentation software (e.g. Microsoft PowerPoint).

Why?
Simply because we are talking about 3d(imensions) and not 2d(imensions).
These programs I mentioned above are all based on 2d... which means they are using 2 dimensions... height and width.
As you may know... we are all living in a 3d world (the third dimension is the depth).

@Jaime
Before you chime in here I have to say we rather live in a 4d world ... since there's also the dimension called "time"... but let's forget this here for the moment, ok? ;)
Ehh... and yes, Jaime.. I know... some students of a known greek academic (I think it was Aristotle) were able to think even in a lot more dimensions.
And.. yes... some mathematic formulas are also calculating n-dimensional range... ;)

Let's say you wanna draw a sphere...ok?
In 2d software:
If you are familiar with some of these software products mentioned above you normally paint a circle.
If you are even better in working with the software you may also add some shadow to its inner part... but even for some users this is not easy to do.

In 3d software:
First... I hope I don't frustrate you too much but in a 3d world there is no circle existing.
Why?
A circle is always a 2 dimensional object and in a 3 dimensional world there is no 2d object existing.
If it was existing it had already a third dimension (depth) and you wouldn't call it a circle but rather either a cylinder or a sphere.

Let's say you wanna draw a cube...ok?
In 2d software:
You'd draw a square.

In 3d software:
Again...there is no real square existing since we need ... you may know by now... a third dimension... the depth.
This means we either use a cube or a cuboid.

So.. in general:
If we're talking about objects in 3d programs we always talk about 3 dimensional elements who have a width, a height and a depth.

To define an object's width, height and depth in 3d programs we use short unified identifiers for each size.
x = width, y = height, z = depth

Hint:
To remember these indentifiers easily you may remember math at school where we all were drawing some graphs in a diagram... we had an x-axis (left to right -> width) and an y-axis (bottom to top -> height).

But what about colors (e.g. blue, yellow, green) and structures (e.g. wooden, stony)?
To make the confusion ;) complete... in 3d these are called textures and materials.
Believe me... you will always want to give your objects some textures and/or materials since this will make an object look like a real object... otherwise you will always have some grey elements which don't differ.

There are two additional things which are important:
1 - Lights and shadows
In 2d software:
These aspects are usually not known.
If you create a new file you normally see a white background and you can create your elements there.
But these elements don't change their color or suddenly have a shadow if you change the background from white to - let's say - red.

In 3d software:
It's very important where the light source is and what color it has.
Think of your daily life. If you look at a chair while the sun is in your back this chair will have some shadows and even some areas reflect the sun more like other areas.
If the sun is rather in front of you while you look at the same chair, the light will reflect differently from other parts and the shadow will also fall differently.
In addition you might know when you look at the same chair at high noon it will have a slight change in the color when you look at it in the afternoon (e.g. a red sun).
A 3d software has to take these aspects into account and this needs time to calculate.

2 - "rendering"
When we talk about "calculation" we rather talk about rendering in a 3d software.

In 2d software:
When you draw a line, a circle or a rectangle in any of these software programs you always see immediately the line and it's color.

In 3d software:
You will normally not see any texture or material when you create or modify your objects.
The reason is pretty simple:
Since the calculation of textures, materials and their shadows take time for the processors of a computer and since most standard computers we normally use at home don't have the abilities like some high-end computers used e.g. for movies most software programs only show some sort of a line model of each object. This means you will rather see a lattice of your objects - until you decide to render your creation.
During this rendering work the software doesn't allow any changes.
If you need to change something you have to stop rendering, make your changes and re-render the whole creation right from the beginning again.
That's why you should be sure you have taken everything into account before you make a complete rendering... otherwise it might be possible you throw away several hours of rendering work of your computer.

Ok... now you know some very basic things about 3d software.
Sorry, this is much but if you ever want to work with some of these 3d programs you will be thankful...
I know what I'm talking about since I had to teach these things myself ;) and I would have been glad if someone gave me these first information about the differences between 2d and 3d software.

But which software should I use?
This question is hard to answer since every answer I'll give you might be the wrong answer since everyone of us has other capabilities and know-how.

Here are my suggestions:
1) MAYA or 3D STUDIO MAX (both by Autodesk)
Link to the website
If you are sure you wanna dive really deep into 3d graphics and animation there's no other way but using them.
These software programs are pretty expensive but they are the best if you want to become a professional later on.
This also means you'll need much (and I mean much!) time to get into their functionalities and how to work with them.
If you don't work every day with this software... simply forget it... you'll be disappointed before you ever have done your frist image.
Btw, many movies and commercials were created by using these software programs.

2) BLENDER (open source)
Link to the website
This software is amazing and ... you won't believe it... it's for free.
BUT... it is the most complicated software I ever worked with.
So, try it on your own (if you want to)... but if you are not aware of its special working style and at least some technical aspects on other computer software (e.g. Linux, Python) you should rather forget it.
I also have to say Blender has been used for many movies and commercials.

3) TrueSace (by Caligari/Microsoft)
Link to the website
Microsoft acquired Caligari some years ago and now this software is also for free..
It is really amazing what you can do with it and it also has many many features and functions.
But please be aware, although it's officially a Microsoft product it doesn't use the frontend of Microsoft programs like Excel or Word.
It's still a 3d software but if you want to get familiar with 3d software it's a great chance.
The only reason I didn't work with it was on one hand it is a bit too complicated, it's not intuitive enough and it seems there's no longer any support.
But hey, it's free... test it and see if it's ok for you!

4) BRYCE (by DAZ3D)
Link to the website
I know... a pro will roll his eyes... but I have to say that Bryce showed me the way to 3d in an easy and really cheap way.
Today... if I want to make a fast 3d image of an idea... I use Bryce and it's still my favorite software for creating a 3d image easily.
If you don't want to bother with x functions and features and only want to build some really good 3d image of your idea... I'd always suggest to work with this software.
To put it in a nutshell:
To create a sphere located on another sphere, adding some textures, materials and some light took me less than half an hour without even knowing any 3d basics and the software.

So... this was a short and very rough overview about 3d software programs and I hope I could explain some aspects you probably should know before you decide if you want to go the way into 3d images.
I know there are many other software programs out there but most of them I never used and it would be unfair to rate them not knowing their features and functionalities.
Maybe there are some other users here at GC who can tell you more about these software programs.

Some last hints I want to give everyone who wants to use 3d software:
- Take a look at the website of the software especially in their forums and see if there is support and help by other users available.
- Use a 30 day trial and get some experience with the software before you buy it.
- Believe me, it's wonderful to see the images in the galleries on the websites of the producers but these galleries don't show how much time people spent to create these images.
- Look for tutorials of the software you want to use. These tutorials are a great benefit to get some impression of the software and how to work with it.

Thanks, hope it helps somehow and best of luck to everyone here on GC for your next ideas!
Keep on rockin'! ;)
decimoq #13535 2011-02-13
decimoq
Huh?
Can't I just pay u to do it?
Cris Shewchuk #13610 2011-02-13
Cris Shewchuk
What is your opinion of Google Sketch Up?
RapunzeL #13688 2011-02-14
RapunzeL
Myself, I understand 95% of it, buddy! You are "too smart for the room", as they say.

Thank you SO much for taking the time to make this post. We would all like to be able to make renderings as slick as you do, one day. I found a lot of new features on my MS Publisher program, that presented me with opportunities to make renderings, more closely to scale, with your beautiful illustrations, so I'm one VERY happy girl today!!! I will sit at the knee of the master (you), and continue to learn from you. You are a gem to be recongized, and I hope some of our members can see how you are trying to facilitate their drawing skills to better their product ideas. I am learning from you, each time you share your knowledge with us. Thank you, SO much!

Rap~
Lucas #13705 2011-02-14
Lucas
Excellent summary on 3d. Thank you!
Myself #13723 2011-02-14 ({snippet_last_edited}} 2011-02-14)
Myself
Thanks to all of you! I appreciate your feedback very much!

@decimoq
I have several requests for getting paid to create some images but as said before in another thread this is always a question of time and complexity.
Currently my time is very limited and I don't want to disappoint someone by saying it may last longer to do her/his image while she/he would even pay for it.
Therefore I hope you understand that I can't promise to do that.
You know there are some ideas of other users here on GC where I created some 3d images. But these images I created because I liked the concept behind the idea and the existing ones weren't in my eyes good enough to explain the idea (hope these users don't mind me saying that ;)).
I'd rather create images just like in the past for ideas I can support from the bottom of my heart.
So, I'd rather keep like that:
If you got an idea and are not able to make the drawings you'd need simply ask me if I may help you. If I also love the idea I'd love to create an image for you... without getting paid, of course.
And if (as some users already did) you let me participate in some way... I'd be very glad (this doesn't mean you have to let me participate ;) ).
Hope this is ok with you?

@Cris
Google Sketch Up is not bad... ;)
To be honest: If someone uses it why doesn't she/he rather use a "real" 3d image program?
The renderings are very limited and not comparable to a 3d program rendering.
If the reason is this software is for free, then I'd ask you if it wasn't worth to spend $99 USD (e.g. for Bryce) to make perfect 3d renderings and having the chance to do this also with future ideas?
Oh... btw, I forgot an important one called "TrueSpace"... I will add it immediately.

@Rapunzel
You are so kind! *blush*
If you let me know which 5% you didn't understand I'd be glad to explain it in other words, ok?
I also wanted to put some images into the text to show what I mean... I'll see if I find the time to and if this is possible somehow.
I'm always there for you ;)

@Lucas
Thank you, too! Appreciate your feedback... especially if it's a compliment! ;)
CMAX #13724 2011-02-14
CMAX
Thanks Myself
CMAX #13726 2011-02-14
CMAX
What do you think of this?

http://download.cnet.com/ActiveSolid/3000-6677_4-10896925.html
Myself #13728 2011-02-14
Myself
Never heard of it before, CMAX.
It looks cool but as I don't know it I can't say anything about it.
Maybe I'll find the time to download and test it... if so, I'll let you know here immediately.
But many many thanks for letting us know about it!
CMAX #13747 2011-02-14
CMAX
I will try it out also.
JelmerBV #13794 2011-02-14
JelmerBV
Myself: "Google Sketch Up is not bad... ;)
To be honest: If someone uses it why doesn't she/he rather use a "real" 3d image program?
The renderings are very limited and not comparable to a 3d program rendering."

I disagree.
=P
You can download many (free) plug-ins/add-ons to make awesome renders with your 'easy' SketchUp model.
I used Kerkythea, it was pretty cool to see your easy models rendered with a pretty nice engine like that.

If you buy the pro version of SketchUp you can even make better renders with other, more professional, render engines.

Another nice 3D program I recently started to use: Rhino.


P.S. The website with tutorials from my university; http://wiki.bk.tudelft.nl/toi-pedia/Browse_by_Software (I don't know if they like it if I share this, but it sure will be useful when some of you want to try Maya.)
CMAX #13829 2011-02-14
CMAX
I just used a kids 3d software to update my idea. It's called 3D Tin. It's kinda cool because you can build your idea block by block then smooth it out.


http://www.geniuscrowds.com/topics/product/laundry_org/850/#comment-13827
Jaime Soulodre #13967 2011-02-15
Jaime Soulodre

Moderator

Myself, I'm highly impressed. Not only with your 3d breakdown, but also with your understanding of modern mathematical theory and ancient philosophy, which you nailed in your intro. I had long suspected you were an Autodesk user, your renderings have a distinct Maya feel to them. It's awesome to have a pro post something like this, I can't thank you enough.

And yes, we quite literally live in a measurable 4D world, but all you have to do is animate your 3D rendering and you're there (easier said than done, I know). I don't think Aristotle really understood his thinking as extra-dimensional, but the argument has been made and it is perfectly reasonable. And n-dimensional thinking is working into the quantum world, and it is amazing. It's nearly impossible to visualize, I've been trying to brainstorm a way to do it for my thesis. 3 dimensional multi-modal fractal-like designs are the best option so far, but way way way too complex for me to create. The better option so far has been to visualize an n-dimensional world as a 0-dimensional world, because they are so similar. Again, easier said than done. Just take your n-dimensional world and put it to the inverse, so 1/n-dimensions. Becomes a 0 (x-axis) asymptote.

Right, I was rambling. Anyway, awesome job on the tutorial! Thanks so much!
Myself #14006 2011-02-15
Myself

Reply To Jaime Soulodre #13967

Myself, I'm highly impressed. Not only with your 3d breakdown, but also with your understanding of modern mathematical theory and ancient philosophy, which you nailed in your intro. I had long suspected you were an Autodesk user, your renderings have a distinct Maya feel to them. It's awesome to have a pro post something like this, I can't thank you enough. And yes, we quite literally live in a measurable 4D world, but all you have to do is animate your 3D rendering and you're there (easier said than done, I know). I don't think Aristotle...

Thank you, Jaime, for your honest and encouraging words.
I know, I say that very often but I really appreciate all these words (even from other users) very much.

I know exactly what you're talking about when you name all these aspects of "dimensions".
The question is if an inverse thinking of dimensions solves the problem itself since we always fix it on the item "dimension"... a very limited point of view mankind created.
If we want to get philosophical we should discuss what dimensions really are (since I'm sure nature never "thought" of dimensions... it's rather a construct mankind created for trying to explain some things). And what is time in an animation... maybe a fifth dimension as we manipulate time somehow?
And what are ideas (or in general thoughts)? Are they the sixth dimension? ;)
So many questions so few answers...

But back to the animation... I know how hard it is creating them with a software like one of these and therefore I didn't want to frustrate or bother others with these functions since this is much too complicated...
Myself #14008 2011-02-15 ({snippet_last_edited}} 2011-02-15)
Myself

Reply To JelmerBV #13794

Myself: "Google Sketch Up is not bad... ;) To be honest: If someone uses it why doesn't she/he rather use a "real" 3d image program? The renderings are very limited and not comparable to a 3d program rendering." I disagree. =P You can download many (free) plug-ins/add-ons to make awesome renders with your 'easy' SketchUp model. I used Kerkythea, it was pretty cool to see your easy models rendered with a pretty nice engine like that. If you buy the pro version of SketchUp you can even make better renders with other, more professional, render...

Hey JelmerBV... that's what I meant by sayig
"But which software should I use?
This question is hard to answer since every answer I'll give you might be the wrong answer since everyone of us has other capabilities and know-how.
"

If you are fine with it... keep on working with it... and I'm sure you will be happy with your drawings as I'm with mine.

Let's see it this way... finally it's not only depending on the drawings... it's rather depending on the idea/solution behind it.
If mankind hasn't already invented the wheel and a user would suggest to use a round disc with a hole in the middle she/he calls "wheel" ... who would ever discuss about the software she/he created the images with? ;)